Mayor Zarifa Ghafari: Fighting for women’s rights, security, universal access to education and economic development in a war-zone

Andrea Macdonald, founder of ideaXme, interviews Mayor Zarifa Ghafari, the first female mayor of Maidan Shahr, capital city of a province in Afghanistan and voted as one of the BBC 100 Women of 2019.

Andrea Macdonald comments:

The current war in Afghanistan began with the United States invasion on 7 October 2001. It has cost the USA 1 trillion US dollars and the world, including Afghanistan, over 150,000 lives. The Washington Post’s ‘Afghanistan Papers’ is the latest contribution to a growing argument over whether the conflict, or any of the ‘forever wars’, was worth the cost.

Mayor Zarifa Ghafari

Here, we talk to Mayor Zarifa Ghafari, a brave woman who argues for continued international presence in “Afghanistan’s international war” and how at both a local and international level we can all make a difference to create peace, equal opportunities and better societies.

Only 27 years old, Mayor Zarifa Ghafari has an MA in Economics from the University of Punjab and has overcome many challenges to create both success for herself and her people.

As well as carrying out her role as the first female mayor of Maidan Shahr, capital city of a province in Afghanistan, she is the founder of Peghla radio station and of NGO “APAW” Assistance and Promotion of Afghan Women. In this ideaXme interview, we talk of the daily challenges and threats that both she and her country face.

Awaiting her assassination

Mayor Zarifa Ghafari, told The New York Times in October 2019 that she awaits her assassination. Threats to her security are centered on the work she carries out as a female mayor in a war-zone. She remains adamant: “I am in love with my job!”

Ghafari took up her position as the first female mayor of Maidan Shahr, capital of Maidan Wardak province Afghanistan, 10 months ago.

She explains to ideaXme why the Afghanistan war is an international war that requires a continued international presence in Afghanistan. She talks of her work to promote women’s rights and education, the numerous projects for which she has been responsible for in her 10 months so far as mayor. Ghafari also talks of her journey to becoming mayor and the hurdles she faced in taking up the position. Moreover, she explains why she urgently needs security assistance to continue the work she does.

Below, read the full interview transcript which includes details of who Mayor Zarifa would like to meet as well as who has helped her the most to carry out her work and further her career.

Fighting for women’s rights, security, universal access to education and economic development in a war-zone

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:02:19] Hello. Who are you?

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:02:35] This is Zarifa Ghafari from Afghanistan, mayor of the Wardak Province.

Working in a war-zone

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:02:44] Your job is extremely dangerous. It is necessary as a woman, as anyone, to be very brave to do what you do. Could you talk about your job?

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:02:59] My job is full of problems for me but it’s interesting, amazing and I love it because I am the first female mayor for my province of Wardak. It is still not safe. It is a war-zone province. I am a female mayor of a province where women don’t have rights. Most women are still deprived of education rights and humanitarian rights. Even walking outside is difficult.

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:03:40] I am the mayor of a province where people still don’t believe women should take part in society. So, I’m really proud of my job but it’s not safe. It is really dangerous and full of problems – social, political, cultural and security problems. But I’m really proud of my job. I roam around the city and get involved with a big group of men who are not so pleased to have a female mayor. I’m in love with my job.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:04:41] You were appointed in 2018, but you weren’t allowed to take up the role immediately. Can you talk about that? 

The right to do my job as Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Wardak

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:04:51] Yes, for nine months I wasn’t allowed to join my office. It was really tough and full of problems. I went through a competitive process; I have a degree. But some groups of men, the land mafia and two people involved with the government were making problems for me because they didn’t want to accept a female mayor. I never lost my hope. I just kept fighting for it and went through a long process of waiting. Finally, after nine months it was over, and I became a part of my office. It was great.

[00:07:15] I’m really appreciative of everything, especially the support that I received from local people and people on social media. When I wrote my first post on social media and I asked people to help me and support me, all around the country and all around the world, people were there to do just that. The President, Ashraf Ghani, was so nice to me and solved everything so I was announced to my office.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:08:04] So tell us about some of your successes in this new position. 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:08:15] It’s my 10th month working in my office and I have lots of things that I am very proud of. On my first day, the staff were not ready to work with me and when I entered, all of them came out and I was the only one inside the office.

[00:08:37] It took a lot of time to get these people to work with me. Eventually, I started doing the job that I’d been appointed for. We have completed around 13 projects of development – urban planning and urban development. In past years, there were only one or two projects developed. I am not the only woman entering the municipals. There are 10 female officials working with the municipal office, coming into the office every day and going back home.

[00:10:06] It’s great and I’m proud of it. We have achieved a 64 percent increase in revenue. It’s amazing. Over the last year, we have become the wealthiest office. This is a great achievement and I am proud of it. 

[00:10:39] Right now, we are working on an underground market with over 16 shops that will be for women. It caters to the provinces and cities where women are not allowed to come out and take part in society. Women will have a market where they can buy their essentials.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:11:05] You have been a very big champion of women in your role. You’re very keen on promoting female education. Aside from supporting women, you’re also leading campaigns on cleaning up the area through actions like litter control. Can you give some more examples of specific projects? 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:11:36] Actually, I have an NGO – APAW Organisation. Moreover, I have a radio station by the name of Peghla FM. Peghla is a Pashtu word which means young girl. At the radio station, we promote women’s rights and awareness of issues affecting women. We promote educational awareness for women as well as legal awareness. At the same time, my NGO is working to support women regarding their work, education and economic development. As mayor, I am working to promote educational and economic rights for women. I don’t know for how much of this I will be ‘the champion’ but it is amazing for me to be involved.

[00:12:29] I’m happy with what I’m doing because women all around the country will hopefully follow me. Maybe in 10, 15 or 20 years, we will have many Zarifas in the country who will fight for educational rights, economic rights and especially for women’s rights.

Fighting for security

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:13:21] You’ve achieved some terrific things, but the context in which you operate in is so dangerous. Recently, The Washington Post publicised the Afghanistan Papers (obtained The Afghanistan Papers, a set of internal documents from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction through a Freedom of Information Act). The Washington Post journalist Craig Whitlock writes of so many lies told around the 18-year war of Afghanistan. Most notable of which is that officials have known from the beginning that this was “an unwinnable war”. Many Americans remain nervous, possibly more so now, about how many soldiers they’ve lost. Over 150,000 people have been lost in this war. Nonetheless, if or when the American troops withdraw, it leaves a situation where security in your country will be even more challenged.

[00:14:27] It’s not an easy situation. Your country is made up of a lot of different ethnic groups and is built around tribalism. This makes the challenge of doing jobs like yours pretty extreme. In terms of your day to day work, could you talk about any threats to your security? You mentioned to The New York Times that rather terrifyingly, you await your assassination. God forbid that happens. Can you explain how threatened you feel now?

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:16:24] Let me start by answering the question regarding the American troops. Afghanistan is not just facing war with one group. There’s international terrorism going on here and the international community should face it and help us in this part of this world. If Afghanistan is not safe, I think there will be problems for every country around the world.

[00:17:15] If you can imagine this world as a body, if one part of the body is hurt, the whole body is painful. The withdrawal of American and international troops will happen one day. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in one year. Thankfully, we have troops, military groups and good security forces who make it ok for girls and women like me to work for the country. When it comes to myself, I’ve faced problems with the police and security issues. I don’t feel so safe as there are lots of problems, but they won’t stop the work that I do and doing the best for my country and for my people. As a citizen of this country, as a girl of this country, as a daughter of this land, it’s my responsibility to get involved. I hope that every Afghan has the same idea and will do the best, on their level for this land.

The right to have bodyguards

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:19:21] Masood Andrabi is your Minister for the Interior. Could there maybe be a shout out to him to supply some bodyguards for you?

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:19:35] Actually, by the decree of the president, every mayor should have two security guards. However, during my 10 months as mayor, besides asking for it so many times, unfortunately, I didn’t get any positive reply. We have problems inside the system. When I went to the governor’s office, he passed my request to the chief of police, then the chief of police passed it onto someone else.

[00:20:27] The biggest problem inside the Afghan government is officials being irresponsible with what they are facing and what they are appointed for. It’s happening all around, but like many others, I can still work. Every human being will die one day. I want to die as someone who will remain in history, as someone that people will still remember after death. I would love to continue with my job. But, at the same time, I believe that when I am so good to my people and people are happy with me, I won’t have as many problems as they’ll set up good security for me.

[00:21:52] I’m not afraid of anything but the mafia who are still involved in local government for their own benefit. This is a big challenge and I hope it will change.

The complex nature of the Afghan war and need for international security forces

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:22:12] Can you talk a little bit more about your context? For example, in the Maidan Shahr area, the ethnic group is predominantly Pashtun. 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:22:29] Yes, it’s mostly Pashtun.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:22:34] Can you talk of the different ethnic groups within your province, but also in Afghanistan overall? I mean, one of the big criticisms within the international media and western intervention in Afghanistan is that they don’t understand the context. So, this interview is a great opportunity to explain a little bit about Afghanistan. 

A beautiful war-zone

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:23:02] This country is so lovely and so beautiful with great nature and various ethnic groups all around. We have great weather and many delicious foods and fruits. Though, there’s been war here for more than 50 years and that definitely has had a negative effect on the country, socially, culturally and in many other areas.

Ethnic groups, politics geography of Afghanistan

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:24:00] In regard to our ethnic groups and tribes, we have more than 30 languages inside Afghanistan. The Pashto and Dari languages are the official ones. In my province where I work, we have a mosque and the ethnic groups Pashtun, Hazara and Tajik. Local people don’t have any issues amongst themselves and are typically nice to each other. If problems arise, it’s usually to do with political leaders and the leaders of ethnic groups getting involved for their own benefit.

[00:26:37] Right now, most people are aware of political games, so it’s fine. Thankfully, Afghanistan is not the country that it was 20 years ago. Things are a bit brighter than they were back then when it comes to social, political and economic issues. For the first time Afghanistan is going to have two female deputy ministers – one in the interior office and one in the defence ministry. It’s amazing and it brings hope for a bright future.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:27:54] That is fantastic news. You’ve also explained a little bit more about the ethnic context and your local context. Afghanistan, I believe, sits surrounded by five countries. 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:28:24] Yes.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:28:27] Now, regarding the Pashtun ethnic group, there are 50 million of them across the world. What percentage of your population of 39 million are Pashtun?

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:28:44] In the latest survey, 70 percent of Afghanistan’s population is Pashtun.

Groups at war in Afghanistan

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:29:27] Now, could you please describe all the different warring elements within Afghanistan so that our audience can get a grasp of how complicated it is? 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:30:09] There are international mafia groups. We have Haqqani, al-Qaida, Taiba, the Taliban, Daish and ISIS. All of the groups which are rising from all over the world are getting involved with the conflict in Afghanistan. Right now, we are not only dealing with the Taliban. We are seeking a peace agreement with the Taliban. I don’t think that war in Afghanistan will end as the country is in the heart of Asia so having this country under control means having control in many other countries.

[00:31:43] Afghanistan is a country that is so rich in natural resources. We have mines and nature. I think that we will continue to feed this war. I hope that coming generations will rise up with a new idea. If I have children, they will do more than me. We have to see how new generations will face these issues and solve these problems. The most important thing to remember is that what we are facing is not from Afghans to Afghans. It’s from foreigners and international communities, terrorism and mafia groups.

The trillion-dollar war

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:33:55] So, despite the fact that the US has spent a trillion dollars on this 18-year war so far, you would still say, because of the impact that this could have on the international community if they withdrew, that they should stay in the war because it is necessary for the world?

The case for continued international security in Afghanistan

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:34:30] No one will talk about these issues so frankly, but I believe that it’s my responsibility as an ambassador for the new generation of my country. Yes, we are thankful to the US and to the international community. However, most of the money spent on my country was not spent in a good way. Most of the US troops inside of Afghanistan have monthly salaries of thousands of dollars. So, whatever money they brought to my country, they got it back.

[00:35:45] Besides this, in Afghanistan, in a country which is facing war, I think it’s good to work on economic developments. Especially with the mines. Mostly, we’ve spent lots of money on projects that have a short period of impact. This is the worst thing for my country. For example, I can tell you, regarding women’s rights, there are many projects from USAID, the U.N. as well as many embassies and organizations. What they are doing is getting students from universities and offering workshops for them. For educated girls, who are studying at universities and I think this is the worst thing for women’s and girl’s rights.

[00:37:26] We should focus on the women in rural areas and those girls who are not educated. To those women who are still not aware of their rights. Speaking about women’s rights to those who are university students somehow fails. This is just one example and the country has faced many issues like this. 

[00:38:01] When American troops came to Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002, the Taliban were pushed to rural areas and we didn’t try to get them out of these rural areas. That was a great mistake. If we were able to clean them out of all areas of the country, we wouldn’t have been paying the price over these 18-years of war.

[00:39:01] When American troops and the international community came to Afghanistan, they were not all good to people and some of them were warlords. The international community and US government thought that getting troops involved with the government and giving them power would be good. But unfortunately, it wasn’t so good. We believe that it’s not a war of Afghans to Afghans. It’s an international war going on in my country. So, we need the international community to be involved so that this can be over.

Prime Minister Imran Khan and President Donald Trump talk of security in Afghanistan

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:40:40] Imran Khan recently met with Donald Trump at Davos. If you had been at that meeting as the leader of Afghanistan, what would you have said to both of them? 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:40:59] Oh, I would have a message for Imran Khan. The message is that: “We know and believe that most of the terrorist groups are going to be from Pakistan and will rise inside Pakistan”. My message is: “If your daughter was living in my country and was deprived of the right to education, how would you feel? Your daughter is safe and, your family is safe. In my country, the president is not safe because of money problems. I am not so safe. Whenever I leave my home and go to my office, I’m not so sure that I’ll go back home alive. This problem is related to the Pakistan government and to all of the intelligence offices in Pakistan.”

[00:42:28] So, they have big influence on my country and on my country’s problems. If I ever met Imran Khan, I would ask him many things because Pakistan is the biggest headache for Afghans. As for Donald Trump, I believe that he’s trying to fix things so carelessly. The US government could help us be done with this war and have a peaceful life, at least for a few years as we are really tired of this war.

BBC 100 Women of 2019

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:43:44] The BBC voted you as one of the 100 inspiring women of 2019. Could you talk about that? 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:43:55] Oh, yes. It was great. It was really nice. The thing that I loved was how I got myself to a place of importance. Besides being happy and having a feeling of responsibility, I like to inspire women through what I’m doing. It is something that I love to do. As a citizen, I see what I’m doing is ‘normal’, but people are praising my work and giving me more motivation to continue.

Mayor Ghafari champion of female education

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:45:10] You’ve had quite a journey within your education. You went to the University of Punjab to study for an M.A. in economics. What was it like being outside Afghanistan?

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:45:32] I was 16 years old when I decided to study abroad. I’m the only female in my family to study abroad. Some people think, “Why did this girl leave Afghanistan and why is she roaming” and now they think: “Why is she working as a mayor and getting involved with politics?”.

[00:46:28] It was challenging during the first year that I was there. I was in India for around seven years. It was a nice experience being there and being among many people from different countries, cultures and ethnic groups. I learnt a lot. However, my family faced difficulties from people for having a daughter studying abroad. They were so strong about it. I love my family.

With whom has Mayor Ghafari connected to move her life and career forward?

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:47:39] Clearly you have a very supportive family. During your life so far, who inspired you and influenced you the most outside of your family to do the work that you do, to be so brave? 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:48:03] I have a friend who is also my business partner. He works as the director of Information and Culture for the same province where I work as the mayor. He’s worked for the government for 12 years. I met him five years ago. He has always supported me. He was the biggest inspiration to me and pushed me to do things.

[00:49:01] Being a mayor and working for the government wasn’t my choice. I went down this path as my friend asked me to accept this position. Right now, he is proud of me and sometimes he says: “See, I was telling you that one day you would do this.” His name is Bashir Mohammadi and he is my biggest inspiration and supporter. I really respect him. 

Who would Mayor Ghafari like to meet?

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:49:55] In your position you clearly meet many people on a daily basis. You also have to interact with some high-level politicians both locally and internationally. Out of everybody that you haven’t met so far, alive or dead, who would you like to meet and what question would you like to ask that person? 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:50:23] Oh, there are like two, three, four or five. I will start with the first one. I would like to meet Angela Merkel and ask her what made her so brave. She is great and I love her. I like her politics and how she does things.

[00:50:53] Secondly, I would love to meet Ivanka Trump. She’s really nice. I would ask her what made you so beautiful? I would also love to meet Barack and Michelle Obama. Having a president from a different ethnic group for the first time in the history of the US is amazing. I would like to know how he got through it all.

[00:52:06] Amongst those who are dead, I’d love to meet Dr Najibullah, the President of Afghanistan from 1987 to 1992. I’d ask him what made him so nice to his country and why he didn’t survive in this position.

[00:52:59] I’d love to meet Amānullāh Khān, the King of independent Afghanistan. I’d like to ask him why he left Afghanistan and didn’t face the problems. He started a fight and left everything. I believe as someone who knows about the history of Afghanistan that if he was able to face things back then, Afghanistan would be different now. These are the people that I wish to meet in person. If I get the chance to meet the alive ones, I’ll ask my questions and share the answers on social media. I’ll send them to you as well.

Andrea Macdonald, founder ideaXme [00:54:58] Mayor Zarifa Ghafari thank you so much for your time. I for one am so happy to have met you and thank you for moving the human story forward. It’s been an absolute honour. 

Zarifa Ghafari, Mayor of Maidan Shahr, Afghanistan [00:55:09] Thank you so much. It’s an honour for me and it was good talking to you.

Credits: Andrea Macdonald interview video, text, and audio.

If you liked this interview, be sure to check out our interview with Ms. Nemonte Nenquimo, President of the Waorani Pastaza Organization.

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