Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor and former Senior BBC Series Producer interviews Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering.
Urgent Need to Recycle Existing Plastics
Neil comments: As worries about the health of our environment continue to grow, a big concern is the harm caused by plastic waste. Whilst intense efforts to find suitable alternatives continue, the need to recycle existing plastics is becoming ever more urgent. One business that makes extensive use of recycled materials is Cascade Engineering, a family-owned plastics manufacturer based in Michigan, which makes products for a wide range of sectors, including the automotive and furniture-making industries. Cascade’s CEO, Christina Keller, says that the company is keen to play a role in the so-called “circular economy”, in which materials can be recycled almost indefinitely. Cascade Engineering was founded in 1973 by Christina Keller’s father Fred. The enterprise is one of a growing number of businesses that are pursuing a “triple bottom line” approach: putting people and planet first, as well as profits. Ms Keller explains that, aiming for a “triple bottom line” can mean a number of different things in practice: for example, in addition to its push to increase its recycling efforts, the business also takes steps to foster an inclusive and supportive workplace, and to offer employment opportunities to as wide a range of people as possible. I met Christina Keller at this year’s Symposium, a vast annual event organised by the students of the university of St Gallen in Switzerland. In this interview with me for ideaXme, Christina Keller talks about how employing a more diverse workforce can not only benefit employers but society too, how businesses can play a vital part in the circular economy, and the challenges and rewards of running a “triple bottom line” company.
Recycling Plastics Using Principles of People Planet Profit
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:00:00] Amongst many threats to our environment. The dangers posed by plastic waste are growing by the day. Whilst the search for suitable substitute materials continues. There’s now an urgent need for increased recycling. One manufacturer that makes extensive use of recycled plastics is Cascade Engineering, a family-owned business based in Michigan. Cascade is keen to play a role in the so-called circular economy in which materials can be reused almost indefinitely. The company says this is all part of its triple bottom line approach a way of doing business that puts people and planet on an equal footing with profit. I met Cascade’s CEO Christina Keller at this year’s symposium at the University of St. Gallen in Switzerland. I’m Neil Koenig and I began this interview for ideaXme by asking Christina Keller to tell us more about her enterprise.
Founder of Cascade Engineering A Pioneer in Triple Bottom Line
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:01:25] Cascade Engineering was founded 50 years ago by my father. He was a pioneer in the ideas of how we can think about a triple bottom line organisation. So, we have had various different waves of people being interested or not interested and calling it different words, but we have always at our core been focussed on people, planet, and profit and how we can really accelerate and thrive and have a continuous learning journey through each of those attributes.
The Triple Bottom Line – People Planet Profit
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:01:59] Triple bottom line. What’s that?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:02:00] What’s that? So instead of thinking singularly about profitability, we look at profitability but within the context of how we can be a steward of the environment, how we can create an environment where people can thrive. We publish a triple bottom line report annually to kind of track our progress. We know that we are never going to be entirely there. This is a journey. So, we look at our metrics. We’ve aligned our metrics with sustainable development goals and also with the B Corporation certification process of ESG. And we have looked at how we can measure. We also set level zero objectives, which are five-year objectives of how we can grow from an environmental, social and profitability perspective. And then we track our progress relative to those. So really, it’s a holistic look at not just how we are doing financially, but how are we doing from an environmental and a social perspective as well.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:03:06] And the company, what do you do? What’s your what are sort of activities are you involved in?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:03:12] So we do a lot of design for manufacturing and then production of primarily large tonnage injection moulded components. So, we are in the plastics industry, and we try as much as possible to use recycled materials. And we believe that plastics can actually be part of a truly circular approach. So, we have roll to the cart trash containers, the 96-gallon trash containers. We make a large majority of those for waste management in the United States and we actually take back those carts at end of life, regrind them and put them back into the products. We also have taken kerbside household recycled material and put that into our products, but we do primarily waste and recycling. Then we have automotive. So, we’ve made the Ford front trunk for the F 150. We’ve done dash silencers, we’ve done [00:04:10] louvers in kinematics [00:04:11] as well as fluid connectors for the automotive industry and then finally for the furniture industry. We’ve been involved in every successful office chair for Herman Miller since very long ago and very impressed with how Herman Miller and now MillerKnoll and Steelcase and others have really pushed the industry to think about full circularity of their products. Whereas previously perhaps making things with a lot of adhesives and fillers, really looking more towards sleek plastic designs that can then be disassembled and recycled at end of life.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:04:56] Just to be clear, you’re making these things yourselves or you’re designing them to be made by others.
Hermann Miller, MillerKnoll and Cascade Engineering
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:05:04] We are making them ourselves. And so, we’re collaborating with the designers, for example, at Herman Miller, and we are designing them for manufacturability. So, someone might come to us with a concept of it needs to be this strength or needs to have these requirements. And we can make the pallet for the plastics, and we can bring that all the way through the processing of making the product. We primarily focus on larger products and our tonnage range goes all the way to the largest press in North America for injection moulding.
Recycling Plastic from Multiple Sources
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:05:41] Just take us through the process then. You get plastic waste from various sources. And then what happens?
Noble Polymers
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:05:48] So when we bring product in, we have a group called Noble Polymers, which is our regrind facility, and it also focuses on has A2LA certified lab that will look at maybe the properties. So, when we start a new source to us, we will look at what are the properties of that of that source, Are they consistent? What’s the melt strength, what’s the tensile etcetera? And we will bring that through our processes depending on what the end application is. So, for the field scrap, we actually bring in the field carts. A partner will wash and grind them and then we’ll take that clean flake, make that into resin, do whatever type of additives are needed, and then bring that right into the production facility, which pushes that through the machine and comes out with a final product.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:06:52] There are a number of technical terms in all of what you say, clean flake and so on. So, in essence, what you’re doing is you’re taking waste products, maybe old refuse bins or food packaging material, that kind of thing. Is that right? And then you grind it up?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:07:11] Correct! So, clean flake is really taking refuse bins, other types of waste or recycled product. And then a partner will bring that down to a smaller size. So, we call that clean flake, which is the flake of the material of the previous product. And then we bring that through our processing to create the pellets that then become the plastic injection moulded product.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:07:43] Now you’ve mentioned a couple of times circularity or the circular economy. What on earth is that?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:07:49] Yeah, so circular economy to me is looking at how we can be regenerative and circular in our approach to business. So rather than the typical take, make, waste, which is the linear cycle that ends with a landfill, we look at how we can divert products from the landfill and bring those around and reintroduce them into our products so that we’re never really adding to the landfill issue. We’re actually creating a model that can continue sustainably into the future.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:08:29] So what we’re talking about here is taking plastic and reusing it indefinitely?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:08:38] Correct. There’s some degradation over time depending on the number of melt flows. But we realistically can keep systems in cycle for generations.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:08:51] Plastic does get these days quite a bad press. Is that justified?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:08:57] I think that there are two different circles in the circular economy. We are in the durable space, and I think that can be truly circular, that we can really look at that as an engine that goes around and around for generations. When you look at the single use product space, there’s a lot of a lot of problems with how you get that disparate product that has gone out on a regular basis and kind of inundated folks. You know, think about the plastic water bottle and the plastic film and all the plastic components.
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:09:31] Plastic is not the best materiality for single use because it’s meant to be in circulation for years and years. Whereas our plastic roll to the cart trash containers for ten years, they can be utilised and then we take them back at the end of life and really the systems need to be enhanced to be able to take back all of the film, waste all of the single use plastic product waste and make that a truly circular loop. Realistically that could be better serviced with a more compostable item or something that would be able to be more readily circulated on that side.
Single Use Plastic
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:10:16] But it is possible, isn’t it, to do something with single use plastic or is it just too difficult?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:10:20] So for single use plastic – we can take that back and make it part of the durable good system. And so, we’ve looked at films are sometimes low-density polyethylene, and we can use those to a certain degree in our plastics, but they’re really not the ideal plastic properties. So, the carts are a high-density polyester. And that’s something that is much more circular from our approach.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:10:50] Is this a sort of business? That location is important in the sense that you don’t want to be transporting or maybe you do, I don’t know, plastics over a long distance. I mean, is this something that you have a kind of regional spread to your operations, or could you cover the whole of the US?
Cascade Engineering’s Community Initiatives
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:11:12] We do have a regional presence in kind of based in West Michigan. And as we look at the region surrounding West Michigan and one of the things that’s really beautiful about the business place-based location is also the work that we’re doing on the social side. So, one of the attributes that we have as an organisation is that we have worked at creating an opportunity where everybody can thrive. And part of that means looking at different pools of people. Not everybody wants to go into manufacturing. It’s not the most glamorous industry that high schoolers are wanting to start their careers in. And so, we’re looking at different pools. And so, in the United States, there are about 2.2 million people behind bars, at any given moment. There are [00:12:06] 70 to 100 million people with criminal records, [00:12:10] and it disproportionately impacts people of colour and minority groups. And so, we have been working at how we can incorporate folks either from poverty, from formerly incarcerated, from welfare and bring them into the organisation and give them opportunities to thrive. So, our initiatives in our community have been around moving the box. So rather than looking at having your felony record as a pre-screening on your application, looking at that as the final step after you have prepared an offer letter for somebody. And realistically, it has changed the approach. And while you say you don’t have biases; a lot of times people will screen people out if that is on the initial application. And so, we’ve worked and now there are over 100 organisations in West Michigan that have signed on to move the box to a different part of the application. And we’ve actually reduced the recidivism rate which is going back into prison by a noticeable amount in West Michigan because of some of these applications. And we also have a pay for contributions program which is starting out as an A level operator. You can quickly progress to B and C.
A Level Operator
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:13:32] Sorry, what’s an A level operator?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:13:34] Sorry. So, an A level operator would be somebody working on the production floor. So when you come into the production floor and you’re working with a press, you start out at level A and then following a very transparent amount of classes or in-person touch points, they can progress to a level B operator, which has more pay and has more responsibility, and then they can progress to C and D, And what we found is from a motivation perspective, people having these early wins where you can progress throughout the process and seeing the fact that other folks are getting opportunity can really create momentum for success and for thriving. And so that’s one of the pieces. Also, we come around with social workers on site. So, we’ve partnered with the employee resource network called the Source, and they bring social workers on site to various different facilities to ensure that people have access to services. And we’ve also worked with housing, transportation, and childcare, which are often barriers for people as they come into the organisation. So, we have that’s a part of the triple bottom line approach, is really thinking about the circularity from an environmental perspective and also thinking about poverty alleviation and how we can work collectively to create an environment where everybody can thrive within our organisation.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:15:12] Very easy for you as a family-owned business to do whatever you like and create a nice, environmentally friendly, diversity friendly company. Not so easy if you’ve got shareholders.
Certified B Corporations
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:15:26] We do have shareholders within our family business structure, but as a family-owned business, we are able to look generationally. So not only next quarter financial return, but what is going to be good for the environment, what’s going to be good for society longer term. So, when if someone were to ask me a question about the rest of folks that maybe haven’t been thinking about triple bottom line organisations and have been thinking about a single profit as a as a purpose, one of the ways that we’ve cultivated community in this space is through becoming, for example, a B corporation, which is a B certified corporation. You actually change your bylaws to say you’re for the benefit of all stakeholders, not just shareholders. And so, it really opens up the conversation of getting beyond single bottom line thinking and thinking more broadly. And there are now hundreds of B corporations that are B corporation certified around the world. Patagonia is an example of a B certified corporation. I believe there are some Ben and Jerry’s. Others that are more brand focussed, but they have B certification. So, in addition to the bylaws change, they also have a transparent metric of how are you doing relative to environmental, social and governance on a scale that really allows everybody to converse clearly. I think one of the issues with environmental and social attributes is that you can have a greenwashing glossy brochure, everyone’s smiling, and you can look into the operations and they may not be very sustainable at all.
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:17:19] And so having these types of transparency and baseline metrics allows us to have that conversation as consumers and as investors of what type of business is this really when you when you pull back the blanket? And is this somebody that I want to be engaging with or not? And so, I think as more organisations right now it’s more of a voluntary thing to self-select and to become part of the B Corporation community. Maybe in the future there might be more governmental role of saying you have to look at these attributes because we all need to be thinking about this for the future. And I think you are seeing with, for example, the Dow Jones Sustainability Index and other types of investors do have some interest in socially responsible businesses. But I think there’s still a question of: How are we measuring those organisations and measuring the impact? And that’s where I think there’s not as much clarity. And so, B Corporation is not the only one doing this. There are others that are that are doing that, but it’s still an emerging space of trying to really have a dialogue where you can have all of the environmental and social attributes on the table.
Is Cascade Engineering Unique?
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:18:44] What are your competitors like, who were involved in recycling plastic? Do they have similar approaches to you or are you unique?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:18:54] I think that there are quite a few people in the plastics industry that are dipping their toe into recycled content or other types of applications. We have, for example, a competitor that is working with ocean bound plastic, and I always think that’s a little bit of an interesting misnomer because ocean bound definition is plastics anywhere near a waterway, which there’s many waterways across the world. And so, I won’t say that it’s necessarily greenwashing, but I haven’t met as many plastics suppliers that have been so deeply trying to look at kerbside household recycled waste. So, our eco card is actually taking waste from the kerb that you are recycling and bringing that back in, which is a pretty difficult process because of the complexity of all the plastics that come into single stream recycling. And then also looking at how we can increase the percentages year over year. So, we have a number of product lines that are 100% recycled plastic, which there aren’t as many players out there that are getting to those levels of recycling.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:20:09] How many of your competitors have this triple bottom line approach?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:20:14] Not many. I don’t know any in our in our main spaces that have the triple bottom line approach. You know, there are obviously ethical companies. People that bring it to a certain level. But we have been doing the triple bottom line approach for nearly 50 years. And so really have been working at it. And as you never get to perfection, but it’s a continuous learning journey. And so, we have a little bit more of a head start on some of the some of the things that you might run into as you’re trying to measure and progress as a triple bottom line organisation.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:20:54] One can appreciate the benefits that this might offer to society, but to hard-headed businesspeople. Are you able to point them to any kind of benefits to the business from this approach?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:21:09] I think that some of the examples of success is really our eco cart and really how waste management combined with us to produce that product and really identified that we are a true partner to them. So, customers have a bit of a pull for this. And for Herman Miller, we’ve been doing successful chairs for them because we’re providing sustainable solutions that are aligned with their standards. And so, I think our customers do appreciate the approach. It creates long term partnerships because we’re looking at the benefits. And then when you look at retention, the social programs that we have that help propel people through the organisation and help break down barriers, not only did we save $2 million for the state any one year, [00:22:06] from welfare to career programs [00:22:08] for the hundreds of people that we are hiring. But we actually are having more retention. So, if you have, for example, a typical millennial stays at an organisation for two years, is the average a returning citizen who has been incarcerated, the average is seven years. And I think the benefit that we get as an organisation is that you have engaged employees that want to be there, that want to be a part of it. You have engagement with your customers in a different way than just through purchasing where they’re trying to find the lowest cost. You’re actually on the innovation side of things. You’re looking at how we can design for humanity centred design versus simple cost optimisation, and that will create value for the end user. So, the end user will want to buy the product more as well. And so, I think there are benefits not only to society but to the whole value stream. And I think people are recognising that more and more to compete in the future world you can’t just do things the way that everything’s been done before and so it allows you a different approach and a different angle to create innovation and, bring that through your organisation.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:23:27] Many parts of the world, including the US, have been finding that there just aren’t enough people in the labour market at the moment after the pandemic. And yet some companies might baulk at the idea of employing people who’ve had encounters with the criminal justice system. What’s your message to them?
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:23:51] I think that we over incarcerate in the US the fact that 70 to 100 million people have a criminal record. I don’t think we have that many more people that are ill willed or ill minded. I think we have an issue with the incarceration system and what it’s allowed for is biases that people have. Like, I don’t like that person of colour, to be validated by another source. So, you’re saying, okay, well, you also have an incarceration and so one plus one equals two. And I don’t want to have you in my organisation. And I think that we have to think differently because not only are you potentially attracting talent into your organisation, that’s going to be hard working and stay longer, but you’re also going to attract those millennials or other folks that might be more choosy about what organisation they want to have because this next generation cares about what their employers are looking at and if their employer sees them as a number and only cares about the bottom line, you’re not going to retain those folks either. So, you have to have kind of an openness or an open stance to be able to attract new pools. But you also have to have that openness and that open stance to attract the next generation as well.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:25:19] So what motivates you? What gets you out of bed in the morning?
Doing Business with a Social and Environmental Mindset
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:25:23] What motivates me is really making a positive impact. That’s something that I’ve wanted to do since I was a child. I did some work internationally. I spent some time in Africa, Latin America, travelled the world and really looked at philanthropy. I looked at not for profit models and actually was struck when I was visiting some other countries about the harm that philanthropy can do at certain times. So, we went back after we installed solar panels in Africa and saw that some of those panels had been stolen and they had created strife within the community. We had the prior year seen people dancing and celebrating the arrival of the solar panels. And so, what I realised from that is that there are unintended consequences. Even if you approach something from wanting to do the right thing and really business can be the engine for growth and development for developing countries. It’s the engine of prosperity for different regions wherever you are in the world. But business can be done differently. Business can be done from a social and environmental mindset, and it can really be done then in a sustainable way while providing benefit to the community, benefit to the end users. And so realistically, I was interested in how I can make a positive impact and ultimately found my way back into business, because I think that is a really strong driver in our economy.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:27:02] What would be your message to young people who want to work in the circular economy?
Working in the Circular Economy
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:27:08] So my message to young people that would like to work in the circular economy is to really run towards the problems. Where are the points where we’re having issues and apply your energy there. So, looking at the waste stream, looking at what’s going into landfill, looking at what is the most challenging part of the plastic supply chain, because that is where you’re going to find the solutions to bring it more circular. I think that the easy things are done through lean and waste reduction and other things, but there takes an extra hurdle to get across the barriers. And so, running towards those points where there’s potentially barriers to making it circular today is how we can make that economy circular for tomorrow.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme: [00:28:08] Christina Keller, thank you very much.
Christina Keller, CEO Cascade Engineering: [00:28:10] Thank you very much for having me.
Interview credit: Neil Koenig, former BBC Producer and now ideaXme board advisor.
If you enjoyed this interview check out our discussion with Virginijus Sinkevičius, the present Commissioner for the Environment, Oceans and Fisheries, at the European Commission.
Neil Koenig: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilkoenig/
ideaXme links: ideaXme https://radioideaxme.com ideaXme is a global network – podcast on 12 platforms, 40 countries, mentor programme and creator series. Mission: To Move the human story forward™. Our passion: Rich Connectedness™!
