Neil Koenig, former BBC Series Producer and now ideaXme board advisor and interviewer talks with Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder of IQM.
Neil comments:
Proponents of quantum computing claim that the technology has much to offer, saying that it promises to revolutionise many aspects of our lives such as scientific research, finance, healthcare and much more.
So far, the field has been dominated by US-based giants like IBM, but now a new wave of start-ups is emerging in Europe. One of these is IQM Quantum Computers, based in Finland. At the recent Symposium at the University of St Gallen in Switzerland, I caught up with IQM’s CEO, Dr. Jan Goetz.
In this interview with me for ideaXme, Jan Goetz talks how he first became in quantum computing, the incredible benefits he believes that the field can offer, and how best to navigate the risks and challenges that lie ahead.
JAN GOETZ – BIOGRAPHY
Jan Goetz is a quantum physicist and co-founding CEO of IQM Quantum Computers (IQM), building next-generation quantum computers. He is on the Board of the European Innovation Council (EIC), the European Quantum Industry Consortium QuIC, a member of the German Federal Economic Senate (Bundeswirtschaftssenat), and a Digital Leader and Global Innovator at the WEF. In 2020, Capital magazine selected him as one of 40 under 40 in Germany, and he received the prestigious entrepreneurship award from the KAUTE Foundation. Mr. Goetz holds a PhD from TU Munich, where he did his doctorate on superconducting quantum circuits, and worked as a Marie-Curie Fellow in Helsinki at Aalto University, where he holds the title of docent.
Dr Jan Goetz ideaXme interview
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:00:00] We are here to idea everyone to fire up your curiosity and connect you with the people and ideas that shape our world. Watch, Listen. Understand. Connect. Create. Let’s Move the human story forward™ together.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:00:20] Every year in the ancient Swiss town of ST. Gallen, the students at its university organize a symposium attracting leaders and thinkers from all over the world. One topic, often under discussion is the impact of new technology and whether recent innovations are to be feared or welcomed. Amongst this year’s speakers was Jan Goetz, a quantum physicist who is also Co-founder of IQM Quantum Computers. The firm’s products are now being installed in research labs and supercomputing centres across the world.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:01:00] I’m Neil Koenig. And I began this interview for ideaXme by asking Jan Goetz to explain how he first became interested in quantum computing.
Start-up to Build and Commercialise Quantum Computers
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:01:09] My background is in physics, so I have an education in physics and was more on a scientific track first. And then at some point I decided, together with three co-founders, to start a company to spin out a company [00:01:23] from Aalto University in Helsinki, [00:01:25] Finland. And this is what I’m doing now since 2019. And we have developed with a company to be now the largest effort actually from Europe to build and commercialize quantum computers.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:01:36] Okay. What’s a quantum computer?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:01:39] A quantum computer is a machine, as the name says, that is a computer. So, it computes for you tasks like mathematical tasks and other tasks. So, this is the word computer in it, really, a machine that where you program a question in and then after some time you get an answer back. The word quantum in quantum computer means that it uses quantum physics to do so. So, it’s not as a conventional computer using transistors and the laws of classical physics, but it uses so-called quantum bits. So, the quantum version of a transistor. And the clue here is that in the quantum world where it computes the answer, it can actually take shortcuts and the shortcuts, they are so powerful that they don’t give you maybe only a factor of 2 or 3 of improvement in the speed, but it can really take shortcuts that allow you to solve problems which would otherwise take thousands or millions of years, even on the most powerful computers that we have. And you could do those in a matter of minutes, maybe on a quantum computer if we had a very large scale one. So, at the moment we are not there yet. This is just the beginning. But the big promise is actually that the quantum computer will solve your problems, which otherwise you will never get the answer from using conventional computers.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:02:57] What sort of problems are we talking about that you would want to use a quantum computer for that you can’t do? You can’t solve this problem at the moment.
Co-founders of IQM
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:03:06] Yeah, well, that’s the relevant question. And the interesting fact here is that quantum computers actually have the potential to solve problems for all kinds of industries. And you can start, for example, using material science. So, the development of better materials, for example, solar cells or better batteries, where you actually use the quantum computer to simulate exactly what’s happening on a molecular level in these devices. But also, quantum computers are very good in all kinds of optimization problems. So, for example, if you want to do traffic optimization for self-driving cars, reduce the traffic, reduce the waiting time, maybe in traffic jams and it can go all the way to finance predicting, for example, financial crisis or also doing their optimization of portfolio. So that’s the interesting part, that as a conventional computer, it’s a problem-solving machine, it’s an enabler for solutions. But the solutions can come from any kind of industry. And this is why at the moment there’s such a big interest in this technology because it’s really a very disruptive technology that may allow all kinds of new solutions from different industries.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:04:18] What is a quantum computer look like?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:04:21] At the moment? These are still machines that look very much like the vacuum tube kind of computers that were there in the very early days. So, it’s really a small room filled with all kinds of electronics and cables. And the word computer, actually, it was used for the people who were operating these machines then. And also, this is still something that we have. So, the computer, the quantum computers that we are building, they are still usually you have someone in the room who is helping with the kind of operation of the device. And this shows you that we are really in the early days. And of course, the assumption here is that in a similar way as for the conventional computing, these devices will develop over the next decades. And there’s a lot of potential for miniaturization, for scaling up. But at the moment, it’s really still a machine that fills a small room a few meters by a few meters, and it’s a physical machine where the computation actually still happens on a chip. But these chips, for example, in our case, they need to be cooled down to very low temperature. So, you have these cooling devices, you have all kinds of control electronics. It’s a physical setup, it’s a computing machine in the end.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:05:31] But this isn’t just at the experimental stage. Now. You’re actually selling these things, are you?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:05:36] That’s correct. So, the whole field comes from the kind of academic sector and people have been building first prototypes since the early 2000 in the kind of physics labs in the universities. And there were a few kind of events, for example, and I think it was around 2015 or so when Google announced that they will build their own quantum computers. So, these were kind of wake-up calls for the community, also for the investor community. And we saw start-ups popping up first in the US. Usually Europe is a bit later, to build and commercialize those computers. So, this has now been going on for a few years and we are now in a stage actually where we have companies, established companies, but also start-ups selling those machines. So, for, for our company, we have sold and delivered already a few machines, but there is a but to this. So, it’s not so that at the moment industry is using it to create kind of commercial value. But the clients or the customers here are scientific computing centres. So, these are scientists who use those machines for scientific computing. And we assume that the first commercial use cases are still a few years down the road from now.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:06:52] How much does one of your computers cost?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:06:55] There’s no such things like a list price. It depends very much on the project. You can still see it as a kind of as a project that we are selling to these computing centres. But and these are these are public figures. IBM has sold a system to [00:07:11] Fraunhofer in [00:07:12] Germany for around 40 million. The system that we sold in Finland was around 20 million. We have a similar number for a system we sold in Munich. So, this gives you an order of magnitude. So, it’s a very costly device. But of course, there is a lot of strategic value in this technology and it’s also a race about who has access to the technology, because some of the use cases that maybe I didn’t mention so far are also related to cyber security encryption. There might be dual use cases for those devices as well. So, governments actually have a huge strategic interest to make sure that this technology kind of is accessible for them.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:07:51] Presumably there might be some military applications?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:07:55] There are. And this is what I meant with dual use, right? Often. So, for example, if you think about pattern recognition, which is one of these use cases where also a quantum computer can speed up, it’s AI use case that you can do for the, let’s say, the civilian use, but then also for military use. And there are quite a few of them. So, if you want to optimize the shape of an aircraft wing, so fluid dynamics, you find applications that can be done with quantum computers, but of course you can improve the shape of a, let’s say, civilian aircraft, but you can also improve the shape of other objects that fly through the air. So, this is what I meant with dual use. And this is something, of course, for new technologies where it’s always a trade off with, okay, when do we want to start regulating? Because in the beginning we are now still in the very early stages. Maybe we don’t want to regulate too much because it might limit the development of the technology on the other side. We also don’t want that the technology goes into the wrong hands. And this is why at the moment we are in these conversations together with governments and other stakeholders about what should be regulated for quantum computers and what’s the best way of doing it going forward.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:09:08] Is there a kind of roadmap for the industry that in 5, 10, 20 years’ time everyone will have a quantum computer in their iPhone?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:09:19] So there is a roadmap and that’s kind of where the commercialization comes in. And it’s not anymore, an academic university effort. So as a normal computer, the key component is the processor. And we as a company and many other companies, we develop those processors and in generations. So, every other year or so, we release a new processor generation and then there’s a jump in computing power and there’s a very clear roadmap going forward. And most of the companies out there have such a roadmap. And to answer your question about the kind of will we have it in our mobile phones, I think that’s a little bit more difficult to answer because the way at the moment computing is developing is that we use a lot our mobile phones, but the actual computation is not happening in our mobile phones. So, if you want to use a service to give you the best, let’s say traffic route from A to B, it’s not that your mobile phone computes the route, but actually the mobile phone sends this problem to a computing centre or a data centre. And there the solution is computed and then the answer is being sent back. And it’s going to be the same for quantum computers. So, the quantum computer most likely will not sit inside your mobile phone, but your mobile phone will be connected to a quantum computer and the quantum computer will just give the answer in a very, let’s say, fast manner. Then back to the to the phones.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:10:42] Back to the days of the mainframe?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:10:45] I mean, it’s not that we are reinventing the wheel and I think that’s the good thing here. We can use a lot of analogies and learnings from the conventional semiconductor industries. And of course, also we use a lot of technology that is being used for Semiconductor industries. So, the chips that we are producing, we use the same tools, we use the same kind of factories, these kind of semiconductor plants. It’s just the way we are designing the chips and the maybe the materials that we are using and the way we are operating them is different and this makes them quantum. But we are benefiting a lot, of course, from an already existing supply chain. In the conventional semiconductor and computing industry.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:11:25] There’s a lot of anxiety at the moment about AI and also the power of devices like quantum computers. Is that a concern?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:11:33] Of course it’s a very hot topic now with the generative AI and all these things coming up. Quantum computers are an enabling technology, for example, to run AI algorithms on them. And there are many ideas how you could implement AI algorithms more efficiently in quantum computers. So, in this sense, I think the concern is more on the application side, not so much on the enabling technology side. I think where it becomes tricky is if those technologies become very independent in the way they kind of take decisions and do things. And this is the discussions we have around self-driving cars, right? What happens if the self-driving car hits a child and who is responsible? So, I think this is where it gets challenging because these technologies that we are now developing, they have the capability to become very independent and maybe even take independent decisions as a car. Do I turn right or left? And what is the old lady on the left and the young child on the right? Right. Which decision do I take? And I think this is where it becomes challenging. Quantum computers, as such, are not the decision makers. They are the machines where these algorithms run on. So, I think the question is very much on this application algorithm side, for example, with AI and how to regulate those algorithms.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:12:52] Nevertheless, for all those involved in this industry, whatever part they’re playing, this must be something at the back of your mind?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:13:00] Sure. And I’m discussing this, of course, a lot, because as you said also, there is always this dual use aspect and there’s this ethical question. It’s also a question of trust. Do we trust a certain technology? I think a good example here is the example of the vaccination and the adoption of it. In the Corona situation, it was kind of a new technology. People didn’t fully understand it, and this is why at least certain groups of people had fears against the technology and were not willing to use it. And I think this is always the case if we have a new technology where we are not very sure yet on what is the impact, how will it be used, will it really work? And at some point, the technology will be established, and we will not talk so much about this anymore. But we don’t know yet how these AI algorithms will be used. And this is why there is a certain fear. And I think at some point we will be in a situation where it’s just normal that these AI algorithms are kind of defining at least part of our lives and we trust the technology. And maybe then we are asking different questions about even newer technologies that are coming up.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:14:07] This is a new and emerging field, but presumably you have quite a number of competitors?
IQM’s Competitors
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:14:13] That’s correct. And the reason is that there is a huge strategic aspect to it. And this is why, we even though it’s an emerging technology, we see quite a lot of very established big companies being there. And it starts in the US, of course, with the big names like IBM, Google, Amazon, but then also if you go to China, so you see Huawei and Alibaba. I think now speaking as a European, the challenge is that in Europe we don’t have unfortunately, we don’t have any of those names in Europe. So, no big tech companies who would say, okay, I go all in, and we will also build quantum computers and then develop the technology. And this is why all the hope in Europe is on the start-ups, because still the Europeans want to have the technology and I’m talking a lot also with people in Brussels and in different governments. How can we then make sure that those start-ups are successful and what we are implementing? And it brings us back to your question about the products and selling already. What we are implementing here is kind of a SpaceX model. So if you look at SpaceX, the first revenues they made, the hundreds of millions came from NASA and other government organizations, and this allowed them to get more private investments in and this is exactly at the moment, the strategy in Europe that we have very good start-ups and they need to make revenues in order to get further private investments, in order to compete with all the big names out there. And this is why we have actually very ambitious programs [00:15:43] to buy quantum computers [and bring them ] into big computing centres [00:15:46] all around Europe and help the European start-ups grow and be a global player in this big race.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:15:52] What does success look like?
Motivation to Build a Large-scale Quantum Computer
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:15:55] Well, I’m a physicist, so my motivation is to build a large-scale quantum computer that can really solve those problems where otherwise we wouldn’t get the answers to. So, my motivation from the beginning was always, okay, I want to see such a machine. And at some point, it was clear that, okay, it’s not going to be the universities that are building these large-scale machines because universities are not institutions where you do large system integration. Universities are good in fundamental science, really pushing the boundaries of physics and other things, and they will still play a major role also in the future because there’s still a lot of ground-breaking technology to be discovered. But the actual machines will be built by private industry because there is where you usually have the expertise in system integration. And this is why I and my co-founders, we took the decision to actually spin out from the university and do it through a start-up. And so, in this sense, for me, success means at some point have a machine that solves a practical problem. So, a problem with a real use case much, much faster than any conventional supercomputer that we have.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:17:07] So just going back to the product again, at the moment, what you’re selling is some pieces of hardware and presumably support? You actually have staff helping your customers to make the thing work?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:17:20] So I mean, we are selling a complete system. So as a customer you get to deliver to your premise, kind of you need electricity, a little bit of cooling water, you turn it on and then you have a computer. So, you have a machine that can that computes something. But the use cases are of scientific nature. So, you are studying still fundamental science. But of course, also those customers, these computing centres, they are not used to run a quantum computer. So, we do educate them. What does it mean? What kind of skills do you need? And also, the scientists, they are not used to run their problems on quantum computers. So also, them, as you described, you’re educating them in how to run an algorithm, maybe how to adopt the algorithm to the problem that they want to use. Actually, we have a quite strong effort on education as such, and we have employees who do nothing else than educating people. And it starts from C-level decision makers. It goes all the way down to students and school classes where we do hackathons because we want that people, society understands what is quantum all about and why does it make sense to really invest into the technology now? So, we are selling computers and we are offering on top services to educate the scientists, decision makers and the broader society, on what quantum is all about.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:18:44] So what are the biggest challenges you face?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:18:47] So the computers still need to develop, the technology still needs to scale. And this is of course a challenge by itself. It is not so that we still have, let’s say, unanswered questions. So, the computers that we have work, and we really need to scale them. So, it’s not that we still need to crack some fundamental physical questions, but the technology as such is very complex and this is a challenge, and you need a lot of good talent for it and a lot of capital because in the end we are producing hardware. So, for example, we are running a cleanroom, a fabrication facility, which is by itself a very kind of big investment. So, we need to get the best people in, and we need to have the investments. And this is of course a challenge also by itself because you are competing with very, very big names. And then the question is how can you raise money for such a story? How can you attract the best people if they could also get jobs in other companies. So, these are typical challenges that we have going forward.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:19:48] What would be your advice to young people who would like to work in this field?
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:19:55] My advice is to do what you have a fascination for. So, if you’re fascinated by technology, by computing, mathematics, any of those fields really pick something that really fascinates you and really go for it. I don’t think it makes sense just because there is a hype in a certain technology to say, okay, now I go into this field because probably there will be opportunities, but actually what I like is something completely different. So, I think that’s important, really. Follow your heart and do what you like and, and then you will find your opportunities. And they might be in quantum computing, they might be in something else. In the end, quantum computing will be a complete industry. So, you don’t need to be a specialist actually in quantum physics. And what we need very much also is people who understand the use cases and we need people who can communicate between those worlds. So, if you think your strength is more in understanding technology, but then being able to be a kind of a mediator between someone who does health-tech or does finance, we need people who can explain from a financial expert to a quantum physicist how those worlds connect. So, it doesn’t really matter where your skills are. There will be a need for you anyway. We need marketing experts. We need people who take care of all the regulatory topics. So, it will be a complete industry, and, in this sense, there will be a job for everyone. But again, you need to be fascinated by the technology to really, I think, flourish in the field.
Neil Koenig, ideaXme board advisor: [00:21:31] That’s great. Thanks very much.
Dr Jan Goetz, Co-founder IQM: [00:21:33] Thanks for having me. It was really a pleasure being here.
Watch this interview on ideaXme’s YouTube channel.
Links
IQM Twitter: @meetIQM
Jan Goetz Twitter: @JanGoetz6
Interview credits: Neil Koenig.
Neil Koenig: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilkoenig/
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